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  #26  
Old 02-09-2008, 02:59 PM
ExcursionConvursion ExcursionConvursion is offline
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Can you mix fish with the algae? They'd love all the O2. Tilapia maybe, or just goldfish. They may introduce lots of other algaes though. You could start with eggs. Great fertilizer, I'd think.
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  #27  
Old 02-11-2008, 02:12 AM
Nev Allen Nev Allen is offline
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EC,

Marc at www.ecogenicsresearchcenter.com does just that.
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  #28  
Old 02-11-2008, 03:06 AM
Nev Allen Nev Allen is offline
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Make that www.ecogenicsresearchcenter.org
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  #29  
Old 10-20-2008, 07:25 AM
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Tilapia fish in an algae pool would be great - they are some of the oiliest fish out there - a while back some tilapia farmers were looking at biodiesel for the excess oil they got after making fish-sticks.
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  #30  
Old 10-20-2008, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
falconian
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Posted 12 October 2007 06:15 AM Hide Post
try this webpage. it works!http://www.plantedtank.net/articles/DIY-Yeast-CO2/7/
Registered: 12 October 2007

That link didn't work for me, so I'll retype it. Hopefully it will work now.

Maybe someone will find something usefull there:

http://www.plantedtank.net/articles/DIY-Yeast-CO2/7/
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  #31  
Old 10-20-2008, 07:29 PM
keelec keelec is offline
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Stationary coal/NG plants have the advantage that they would be easy to capture the output. However, most people are concentrating on making biofuels for automobiles.

There is another chain about attaching essentially a CO2 scrubber to cars.
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/15010000...971012802#8971012802

The problem is that CO2 is only about 0.03% in the atmosphere...
Theoretically one could either bubble air through the algae, or perhaps one could concentrate it further, although I'm not sure if there are CO2 scrubbers designed for low concentrations of CO2. I assume one could use an oxygen concentrator, or similar device to separate out some constituents in air.. (oxygen/nitrogen), but it would still likely only give you 1% or less for the CO2 which may or may not be enough for a CO2 scrubber to pick up.

However,
Since people live in enclosed living quarters... and many animals too... one might be able to attach CO2 scrubbers to climate control systems and exhaust fans of buildings. And, the better insulated houses are with more air recirculation, this might also become a need in houses.
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  #32  
Old 10-20-2008, 09:15 PM
Tim c cook Tim c cook is offline
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Cheap collecton the CO2 is the easy part, you pass air through a bed of calcium hydroxide lye (HERE) (this is why your lye goes dead if exposed to air too long), getting the CO2 back out even as limestone is an energy consuming process, freeing the co2 as a gas would require even more energy as heat to drive it out of the limestone.

Feeding the CO2 in air to plants is a LOT more efficient.

Bubbling air through water would seem to be the easiest and cheapest mathod to feed algae, Unfortunatly, the bulk of our excess atmospheric CO2 is being absorbed by seawater and is shifting the chemistry of seewater more acidic due to creating high carbolic acid amounts,these are now causing all sorts of problems with sea life. This same acidity problem happens when dissolving CO2 in water growing algae, this is the basic reason there is research to bubble the air through a columb of slightly caustic fly ash buffer when using it with algae.

Plant trees, LOTS of trees. It takes about 7 trees to process the CO2 expelled from the breathing of each adult person, no idea how many trees it takes to process the CO2 from the fuel burnt to keep one person warm, and/or to remove the CO2 for the vehicles that single person drives.

There is a tiny development company in Arizona that is developing huge plastic membrane based artificial tree leaves to seperate the CO2 from air (HERE), these somehow collect the CO2 on there surface and it is washed away and captured using water?

There are other synthetic membranes that have calibrated openings to let everything but the large CO2 molecule pass through, works in the lab with perfectly clean air but not very practical with everyday dirty air.
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  #33  
Old 10-20-2008, 10:46 PM
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If you want cheapish concentrated co2 to feed to your algae then why not 'co-plant' with ethanol fermentation? You get wine or beer as a byproduct of the yeast producing co2. Or just by a cylinders. The gas is pretty cheap. the cylinder rental is what you keep paying for.
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  #34  
Old 10-28-2008, 04:09 AM
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The geniality of people here and in many other places never ceases to amaze me.
Most of those ideas are lovely and completely impracticable.
How much booze should somebody make to get 500 gallons of algoil?
You better book your place in the Betty Ford Clinic.

There are some uses for algae as a fuel plant, I think, but the circumstances should be just right.
And I don't know what "just right" is.

Er... What am I missing?
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  #35  
Old 10-29-2008, 03:46 AM
Nev Allen Nev Allen is offline
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Francyd,

From this post and others it would seem that what you are missing is an education - an education in algae that is.

We all know full well that growing algae in huge open ponds is totally practical and is done on a huge scale all around the world.

Google SPIRULINA and DUNALIELLA SALINA and see just how big this industry is already.

Where the oil from algae technology is falling down is in the economics of harvesting and extracting the oils.

Increasing production of any plant species is done by adding Co2 to greenhouse atmosphere. If we consider the growing medium of algae to be the algae atmosphere , then adding increased amounts of Co2 will increase production - no arguments.

"Just right" is just around the corner. Either get on the bus and join us, or keep your posts to factual matters.
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  #36  
Old 10-29-2008, 07:10 AM
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IF you can combine the CO2 from coal fired electric plants with sewage effluent and feedlot sludge to produce algae, then you would have something useful. How's that coming along?

Do let us know when you've got your first liter of algal oil. Meanwhile recycled fryer oil more than meets my alt-fuel needs.
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  #37  
Old 10-29-2008, 10:19 AM
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That might be a 15 year bus ride.
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  #38  
Old 10-30-2008, 01:48 AM
FrancyD FrancyD is offline
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Quote:
Either get on the bus and join us, or keep your posts to factual matters.
Who wants a stationary bus?

Perhaps I need an education in Algae.
I have read all your posts here and on Biodiesel Now.
Does that qualify?
I read the others as well of course, which most likely is the cause of my misinformation.

I find it very strange that you berate me, but not somebody that wants to make booze to feed his algae with CO2.
I assume that one is on the bus.

"Just right" is not just around the corner.
There simply are no plants that produce algae in commercially viable quantities.
If there were, you would have given the location a long time ago.
That is what we will need: an industry model.
And I'm still not talking about extraction.

I also happen to think it's a worthwhile effort, in the right climate, with the right feedstock and a LOT of land.
You're a dreamer Slippery and there's nothing wrong with that.
Great things have happened from dreams.
I LIKE the idea, but I don't see it happen just yet.

I think I wait for the next bus, for now.
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  #39  
Old 10-30-2008, 03:44 AM
Nev Allen Nev Allen is offline
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Where is your sense of adventure Francyd. Get on the bus and join us.

I am not going to do your research for you but you are wrong about there being no large commercial algae producers. I will relent and name 1 for you - Earthrise - look them up.

And about using Co2 from booze production, one of the better locations for placing an algae production facility is adjacent to a beer brewery where you can capture Co2 of a better and cleaner quality than that from any power station.

Now there - see - 2 simple facts that you were evidently ignorant of but were happy to knock posters who did know what they were talking about.

Please do some more indepth research. Biodieselnow forum has a good list of algae reading material for you to start on, and if you have read my posts here and elsewhere then you will have seen the web sites I advocate time and time again.

We are all dreamers, every one of us, in our own ways. Orvil and Wilbur were dreamers too.
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  #40  
Old 11-08-2008, 02:31 AM
FrancyD FrancyD is offline
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This is what Earthrise says about itself:
Quote:
In 1979, after years of research, Earthrise® introduced Spirulina to the natural foods market. Then, in 1982, the visionaries at Earthrise built the first U.S. Spirulina farm to grow this green superfood in pure California desert sunshine using ecological, earth-friendly methods.
Er... if you want to run a car on high quality food supplements, be my guest.
I have never disputed the viability of algae growth for food.

IF (and that's still a BIG if) algae can be grown in economic quantities location next to a brewery wouldn't hurt at all.

However I don't think that a brewery would locate in "the sunny Southern California desert", where Earthrise is.
I think that might have to do with the millions of gallons of water they use.
In fact most BIG breweries I know are located in or very near an urban environment.

If you have a wide circle of friends and you do all the home-brewing for them, you most likely have not enough CO2 to feed enough algae to make biodiesel for a 20 mile trip.
If you want to locate next to a brewery, go ahead, most likely that kind of land is VERY expensive.

You gave me 2 examples and neither of them cuts the mustard (as they say around here).
The first is a foodplant and space next to a brewery is most likely so expensive that it would be a lot more profitable making a private car park.

Unless somebody forgets: we are talking producing oil from algae, to make biodiesel (or use it "as is").
Whatever happens, biodiesel from algae is not for the home-brewer and will never be.
It might be possible on a commercial scale in the furure.
For the farmer who has a few hundred acres of marginal land and wants to use it for algae for biodiesel, I'd say: set up a Jathropa plantation.
At least that works and is viable.
You still need to water them though!

And Slippery, I read all the stuff that I could find, thanks to you and other people that gave links.
That's what led me to this conclusion.
I admire your experiments, because that's a good thing.
Whether it gets you anywhere in an economical sense is as such unimportant.

However, I WOULD appreciate if somebody could give me a website from an organisation that DOES produce oil from algae on an economic scale for the purpose of propelling vehicles.
Er... AND has data to prove it.
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  #41  
Old 11-11-2008, 11:02 AM
Nev Allen Nev Allen is offline
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Francyd,

Glad to see that you have been doing some research. The examples I gave were given in response to comments you made in earlier posts and were simply designed to show you that a little reading will help you with the bigger picture.

Algae holds a lot of hope for us and it is going to take a lot of people like myself, Bobby, Murphy and all the others to stick to our guns and work at these experoments.

As my signature says - Small steps taken one at a time.
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  #42  
Old 11-12-2008, 04:17 AM
FrancyD FrancyD is offline
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Quote:
Glad to see that you have been doing some research. The examples I gave were given in response to comments you made in earlier posts and were simply designed to show you that a little reading will help you with the bigger picture.
Personally I don't really like it when people are condescending; I've done all that reading BEFORE you "advised" me to.

Sorry Slippery, your comment is big BS to me.
You gave that example for the simple reason that you don't have any other.
If you had an example of a working facility that produces algae for the purpose of making vehicular fuels you would have said so, for it would have proven your point.

Next time you talk me down, come up with some REAL results please, because you don't give any answers to my questions.
Talk is cheap; just give me a plant that produces biodiesel from algae; a verifiable one!

I don't know to what gun Murphy is sticking; it seems he misses something.
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  #43  
Old 11-12-2008, 08:29 PM
clean and green clean and green is offline
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FrancyD,

Good to see that you are still lurking in these forums waiting for your opportunity to jump on a thread and add your "2 cents worth" of input. I always know where to find you should I be in need of more of your sage advice.

And a quick heads-up to all the young bucks out there itchin' to make a fast buck on biodiesel and algae: relax, kids. Things like this take time so don't get discouraged that "everything that could have been done by now" isn't already. It took thirty years to get to this point, and I believe we are exactly right on schedule. 2008 saw investment in algae-for-biodiesel in excess of half a billion dollars by major players like Chevron and Shell, and they are planning for 2010 or 2011 for commercial production so what does that tell you?

More than FrancyD ever will.
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  #44  
Old 11-14-2008, 03:35 AM
FrancyD FrancyD is offline
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Cut the crap guys!
Come up with something real and I keep my mouth shut.

Ever thought about the fact that Chevron and Shell are working hard to get a "green" image?.
I must say that the Shell one looks serious, but on the other hand this is just about the cheapest (in dollars) "image campaign" a company of that size could do, especially after tax.

I see you revised your figure of commercial biodiesel from algae up by two years.

I have nothing against people that have a dream.
Many had and most failed.
A lot succeeded on the other hand, sometimes against ridicule.
I do not ridicule the idea of making bidiesel out of algae, for the simple reason that the concept is proven.
And that's exactly where were at at this moment, there's nothing more.
There is a promising biggish test going on in Maui, Hawaii and that's just about it.

How somebody can say that Shell hopes to produce biodiesel commercially in 2010/11 when they haven't build the plant yet is beyond me.
Sorry, they can't for very simple physical reasons.

I sincerely would appreciate if you stopped your personal attacks on me.
If not I will ask Shaun to look into it.
All my live I have given reasons for my opinions when I vent them.
If the only thing I get back is berating and condescension without very good arguments, I might start to think I'm right after all.
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  #45  
Old 11-14-2008, 04:46 AM
john galt john galt is offline
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Alternative Fuel News

November 11th, 2008
‘No Thanks’ to $1 Million Biodiesel Grant

Posted by John Davis

It’s not very often that you hear about a biodiesel firm turning down $1 million in the form of a government grant, but a green fuel maker in Pennsylvania seems to have some practical reasons for saying “thanks, but no thanks” to the money.

This story from the Binghamton (NY) Press & Sun-Bulletin says Alternative Fuels Inc. turned down the $1 million Pennsylvania grant to start an algae biodiesel fuel plant but will still produce biodiesel in the state:

Late last month, [Richard Smith, the business's principal] told the DEP he would not be using the grant and to make it available to someone else, Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection spokesman Charles Young said. The DEP asked for the request in writing and has not heard back from Smith.

Smith did not receive any money from the grant because he had not begun producing biodiesel at the required level, Young said. The company was expected to produce more than 25,000 gallons of algae-based fuel a day.

Smith had problems producing algae-based fuel and instead began using waste oil, generating enough biodiesel to receive a relatively small $480 grant from Pennsylvania, Young said.

Under a program initiated last summer, Smith also is eligible to receive 75 cents a gallon from Pennsylvania, or up to $1.9 million a year, if he produces at least 25,000 gallons of biodiesel a month, Young said.

The article goes on to say that Alternative Fuels does plan to take advantage of that conventional biodiesel credit.
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  #46  
Old 11-14-2008, 09:31 AM
Nev Allen Nev Allen is offline
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Try this one Francyd.

Yeah, yeah - maybe they are not producing commercial quantities of biodiesel at this time - but they have produced biodiesel from algae and will expand this production with this public float.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4759811a13.html
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  #47  
Old 11-14-2008, 10:02 AM
clean and green clean and green is offline
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Short and sweet:

FrancyD and other naysaying lurkers - go away, you are not welcome here. You contribute nothing to these forums, you only distract.

As for personal attacks, how about this:
I think you stink. Report that to Shaun with evidence to the contrary if you must.

Go away. You are not wanted here.
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  #48  
Old 11-15-2008, 03:05 AM
FrancyD FrancyD is offline
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Slippery:
There's a lot of talk about the Nigerian oil scams.
I suggest you take a look in your own back yard.
There is no doubt that algae can (and are) used in the cleaning up of waste water: GREAT!
That does not make them viable for commercial biodiesel production as such, unless you have a VERY big waste water plant.
That's the thing with algae I think: it has to be BIG.

John Galt: Thanks, this is what I talk about.
Does anybody in his right mind think that a company would chuck out a million if they thought they could reach their target?
Their website was updated 13 months ago for the last time.

Clean and green:
Does your Mom know you're here?
I have some homework for you, assuming you know all the stuff.
Set up an imaginary factory and let it produce algae for biodiesel, say 100,000 gallons a year (a small one so)
Give the location
Give the area you would use.
Give the yield you expect and why.
Explain the process (how would you produce the algae, including feeding)
Explain harvesting
Explain extraction
I want your own replies and I will review them.
No web sites.

I don't claim to understand all that (and I said so): you on the other hand do.
So it would be fairly simple for you to give me the answer.

There's no doubt that I stink.
The question is: who's the REAL stinker?
I have read many books about magic realism (including Nobel Prize winner Gabriel Garcia Marques) but only here I find the stuff about biodiesel from algae.
Fascinating!
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  #49  
Old 11-15-2008, 08:36 AM
clean and green clean and green is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Murphy:
I've been investigating an algae setup for experimenting.

One thing I can't figure out..

Where to get the Co2 needed? I guess that during the winter I might be able to draw some from my forced air gas furnace exhaust, but even that's only part time.
From what I hear the next president is all about carbon credits etc, so if you can wait a few months you might be able to get free CO2 from somebody who would otherwise have to pay to dispose of their waste emissions.
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