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View Full Version : Create Barb End On Soft Copper or Aluminum??


tcr1016
02-01-2008, 02:35 AM
Is there a tool that I can create a barb on a copper or aluminum pipe? I usually just slip on the hose but want to create a barb on it for safety.

Or if you have a better idea I would love to hear it.

tcr1016
02-01-2008, 02:35 AM
Is there a tool that I can create a barb on a copper or aluminum pipe? I usually just slip on the hose but want to create a barb on it for safety.

Or if you have a better idea I would love to hear it.

maddasher
02-01-2008, 03:11 AM
Try a flare fitting. For example if you are connecting an aluminum fuel line to 1/4 inch fitting on my T fitting that goes to my ball valve I flared the aluminum line and used a 1/4 inch NPT to 1/4 flare. This is the size that connects to 3/8 aluminum tube. This picture looks good on my computer but gets a little lost in translation but you get the idea.

Gerry Jackson
02-01-2008, 04:27 AM
When I made my original filter wrap out of coiled copper I silver soldered brass barbs onto the copper tube. A 1/4 '' pipe thread slightly reamed out will fit over the tubing I believe. When I built my heated fuel pickup I didn't get quite as fancy. I just took a short chunk of solid copper wire and folded it around the tubing and soldered it on. The hose slides over it and will nver pull off. Been working for 2 years and counting.

Johnno
02-01-2008, 10:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tcr1016:
Is there a tool that I can create a barb on a copper or aluminum pipe? I usually just slip on the hose but want to create a barb on it for safety.

Or if you have a better idea I would love to hear it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
There is a tool which fits in the pipe and makes a 'bump' in the pipe from the inside. I don't know what it is called but ask a plumber.

imported_SkySkiJason
02-01-2008, 02:50 PM
What you seek is a 'Flaring Tool'. You will need to do a 'double flare' so the edges are not sharp.

I have found this is not necessary on my system. VO pressure is 70psi and I had a problem recently that provided spikes over 100psi. ALL of the tubing in my system is 'smooth' and single-clamped - no prob's for 50k miles!

weelliott
02-01-2008, 03:26 PM
I've also found barbs to be unnecessary. I have used 1/4NPT nipples and slipped the 3/8 inch hose right over them with no barb at all. I didn't use them for very high pressure though. Then I realized just how hard it is to get them on there since 3/8" is .375, and the nipple O.D. is about .405. This translates to it also being hard to get them off. I use that type of connection on my CF rig, and it has spiked to 110 psi before with no hose problems at all.

It might be the large size difference that eliminates the need for barbs in this case though.

Someone else mentioned to me on the DC thread that 5/8 inch hose also slips over 3/8 nipples pretty well. So I looked up the OD of NPT piping, and generally up to about an inch, the OD of a nipple is about 30 thousandths of an inch larger than the ID of a hose that is 1/4 inch larger. If that didn't make sense, another way to say it is that NPT pipe OD is about .28 inches over the pipe's named size.

Be sure to get a nipple without lots of scratches on it though.

johno
02-01-2008, 05:08 PM
A good hardware store will have replacement compression ferrule rings. They slip onto copper tubing, and can be easily soldered in place to act as a barb. Being smooth, the hose will slip over them easily. Put the clamp just past the ferrule, so that forces trying to pull the hose off the tube pull the clamp towards the ferrule.

imported_B.K. Hosken
02-01-2008, 07:06 PM
When I use non-barbed hose connections, I use a little RTV/silicone sealant on the nipple, then slide the hose on and clamp. The silicone kind of glues the hose on the nipple.

cstoker
02-01-2008, 09:20 PM
The idea about the compression ferrules is great - however getting a good solder bond on aluminium is tricky.

The tool you want isn't cheap, but here (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/parkerbead.php) it is.

fabricator
02-01-2008, 10:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cstoker:
The idea about the compression ferrules is great - however getting a good solder bond on aluminium is tricky.

The tool you want isn't cheap, but here (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/parkerbead.php) it is. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

it is not tricky to solder brass to aluminum it is impossible.

cstoker
02-02-2008, 04:03 AM
Right. Guess I was assuming you could find aluminium compression sleeves and use some al-al brazing material such as this (http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/consumables/alloys.asp?id=2).

maddasher
02-03-2008, 12:11 AM
What are you trying to connect together. Did you cut the factory steel lines and want to attach to them or were you connecting an aluminum fuel line to a filter or 3 way valve? Or were you connecting a rubber fuel line to a aluminum or copper line?

I actually have an FIT fitting that can be welded to a steel fuel line like on a cummins turbo diesel. But I decided to change all of the fittings and not have the cut factory lines.

tcr1016
02-03-2008, 12:44 AM
I am connecting Aluminum to rubber hose and aluminum to aluminum. I bought brass compression fittings and will put a little High Temp RTV to help seal it. This is for my diesel line and sVO line.

Will the brass be a problem with either one?

Does this sound good??

tcr1016
02-03-2008, 12:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by B.K. Hosken:
When I use non-barbed hose connections, I use a little RTV/silicone sealant on the nipple, then slide the hose on and clamp. The silicone kind of glues the hose on the nipple. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you course sand the line to create grooves for the RTV/sealant to stick better with?

Reggie
02-03-2008, 04:09 AM
For those that are uneasy about soldering aluminum, wouldn't JB Weld work better than silicon? Just look at the faq's sheet from JB Weld company. I've used this stuff on methanol, Bio, gasoline and it still holds up well. I had no idea it was good up 500 degrees F.

http://jbweld.net/faq.php#faq001

maddasher
02-04-2008, 01:11 AM
I find RTV does not work the veggie desolves it. I have used compression with pex line and thin aluminum and some copper but it does not work on Steel, SS, thicker Alum, or anything that is to hard. Flare does not really work on steel or Stainless Steel either. Your 5.9 cummins probably has FIT fittings just like mine. If this is you first conversion of this engine get fittings to replace the factory fittings and put aluminum fuel line. Everywhere that does not cross from frame to engine. Where it does cross from frame to engine install high pressure hydralic fuel line I get this at a local hydralic store or at an ACE Hardware. You will really appriciate this when you don't have any blowout of hoses.

imported_OilItRight
02-04-2008, 04:08 AM
If you just used a flairing tool would it create enough of a shoulder that a hose clamp would hold better then just straight tubing?

plantdriver
02-05-2008, 09:01 AM
We use this beading tool to roll an internal bead on Summit Racing's 3/8" aluminum fuel line which we use for both coolant and fuel lines running under the vehicle on some conversions - cars more than trucks, where we want the bomber-ness of aluminum hose-on-hose.

http://www.holley.com/types/Earl’s%20EZ-Beader.asp

We use a tubing bender to turn the aluminum lines up into the trunk and engine compartment, then transition to rubber hose, and this beading tool puts a little bump on the tube, as Johnno mentioned.

Craig